Capitalization and punctuation in the titles and the first lines of the hymnal instances should match what is in the hymnal, whether or not it is correct. I suspect usage has changed over time. The first line in the text authority should generally match the capitalization and punctuation of the oldest instance. Many of the hymns that were added in the DNAH merger have standardized first lines, which don't necessarily match what is in the hymnals; so the way to start working on this would be to edit/proof these hymnals.
I've been having much difficulty trying to convert various image formats to PNG which I had understood to be the format of preference here ... however ... to further facilitate the improvement of the hymnals here at The Hymnary so that more people can do editing and proofing of hymnals, would it be acceptable for me to upload PDF files [** of hymnal page images (added to post on 12-12)] to be used as references? I have found many available at The Internet Archive that match DNAH hymnals and is my preferred way to work with them. Somewhere there is a list of things to compare to make sure the editions match ... things like title, year, editor, publisher, city. I look at all of these things, and I don't post PDF's unless all the info matches, unless I can determine there may have been a typo/error that can be overlooked (probably not a good term to use). I was thinking I should rename the files to make it easier for people to match to the hymnals by using the "codes" used here to identify them using an abbreviation of the title followed by the year of publication.
I already have downloaded several PDF files into a folder on my computer for my personal use for editing and proofing these hymnals at The Hymnary, but there are way too many for me to be able to use just by myself and would gladly share these files with those who would like to do this work, too. :)
KenJ
PS. After some further thought, I think I should insert the DNAH id code in front of the original file name to keep the bibliographical info for reference in case the file is too hard to read or is incomplete. Perhaps another version can then be used to supplement or replace the PDF file first uploaded. I don't mind if some things are missing ... I would rather have a mostly complete hymnal than none at all. I have no hard copies of any hymnals, so I make much use of IA files. KJ
For now, maybe it would be sufficient to add a link to the PDF in the notes section of the hymnal?
It looks to me as though what we really need is a program that will suck in the images from an Internet Archive PDF and add them all to a hymnal automatically. Perhaps another version for hymnals in Google Books. This way I suspect we could add page images for 100s of hymnals with a month's effort perhaps.
However, having links to a PDF version of the same hymnal would be very beneficial in making possible for a programmer to do this work without having to track down PDFs for hymnals and verify that the editions match.
***Any programmer out there interested in giving this a try?
There are zip files available at the Internet Archive with individual page images ... mostly in JPG format, I believe, if that might help any. They also have XML files of metadata that may or may not be of use automating the gathering of that info.
Would it be OK to provide multiple links to different scans of same editions in case of incompleteness or difficult to read images? That way the user could look at an alternate source of scans if need be.
We don't necessarily have a preference for png files, if the jpgs are done well. The problem with jpg is that it is a lossy format -- but I'm guessing internet archive uses them appropriately. It would be OK to provide multiple links if necessary.
Yes, the XML metadata files will probably help, although we'll still have to match the IA edition up to a hymnary.org edition.
Of course matching is the number one priority. I was only saying I should post links to all the different scannings of the same edition. I have found it necessary sometimes to use more than one set of scans so that I could make a complete "correct" edition from parts of several if need be. It is indeed nice to have "backups" when something is unclear from distortion or despeckling.
I should probably do the same with GoogleBooks, which is the other source I use after IA. There will be some duplication, as I've seen on IA such statements as "Book digitized by Google ... uploaded to the Internet Archive by user ...".
Thanks for your attention to this, Harry. I hope I can help provide the means for (many) others to help get things done faster here.
If PNG is not necessary then I might as well upload images in other formats that are available at IA. I will try to find and re-read related posts here. Then I'll start by uploading the two hymnals I posted links to PDF files at IA. After successfully uploading the images I'll delete the links, or do you want to keep them anyway?
Just where is the notes section of a hymnal that I should paste the link(s) to? I know there's a "notes" column in a spreadsheet for notes on individual hymns, but for the whole hymnal? I suspect it's the page with the info I use for verification of the edition, but where, exactly, would I post the link(s)?
If you go to a hymnal page and select "edit" from the editor tools, you have access to all the data base the hymnal. The very last item is "notes"; you could add a link there such as
<a href="http://whatever">Page images at Internet Archive</a>
My Starred Hymns
My FlexScores
My Hymnals
My Purchased Files
Comments
Correct usage of Capital and Lower-Case letters
Capitalization and punctuation in the titles and the first lines of the hymnal instances should match what is in the hymnal, whether or not it is correct. I suspect usage has changed over time. The first line in the text authority should generally match the capitalization and punctuation of the oldest instance. Many of the hymns that were added in the DNAH merger have standardized first lines, which don't necessarily match what is in the hymnals; so the way to start working on this would be to edit/proof these hymnals.
editing/proofing hymnals
I've been having much difficulty trying to convert various image formats to PNG which I had understood to be the format of preference here ... however ... to further facilitate the improvement of the hymnals here at The Hymnary so that more people can do editing and proofing of hymnals, would it be acceptable for me to upload PDF files [** of hymnal page images (added to post on 12-12)] to be used as references? I have found many available at The Internet Archive that match DNAH hymnals and is my preferred way to work with them. Somewhere there is a list of things to compare to make sure the editions match ... things like title, year, editor, publisher, city. I look at all of these things, and I don't post PDF's unless all the info matches, unless I can determine there may have been a typo/error that can be overlooked (probably not a good term to use). I was thinking I should rename the files to make it easier for people to match to the hymnals by using the "codes" used here to identify them using an abbreviation of the title followed by the year of publication.
I already have downloaded several PDF files into a folder on my computer for my personal use for editing and proofing these hymnals at The Hymnary, but there are way too many for me to be able to use just by myself and would gladly share these files with those who would like to do this work, too. :)
KenJ
PS. After some further thought, I think I should insert the DNAH id code in front of the original file name to keep the bibliographical info for reference in case the file is too hard to read or is incomplete. Perhaps another version can then be used to supplement or replace the PDF file first uploaded. I don't mind if some things are missing ... I would rather have a mostly complete hymnal than none at all. I have no hard copies of any hymnals, so I make much use of IA files. KJ
[**] = additional text added to post 12-12-2009
Adding page images
Ken,
For now, maybe it would be sufficient to add a link to the PDF in the notes section of the hymnal?
It looks to me as though what we really need is a program that will suck in the images from an Internet Archive PDF and add them all to a hymnal automatically. Perhaps another version for hymnals in Google Books. This way I suspect we could add page images for 100s of hymnals with a month's effort perhaps.
However, having links to a PDF version of the same hymnal would be very beneficial in making possible for a programmer to do this work without having to track down PDFs for hymnals and verify that the editions match.
***Any programmer out there interested in giving this a try?
---------------
Harry Plantinga
CCEL Director
There are zip files
There are zip files available at the Internet Archive with individual page images ... mostly in JPG format, I believe, if that might help any. They also have XML files of metadata that may or may not be of use automating the gathering of that info.
Would it be OK to provide multiple links to different scans of same editions in case of incompleteness or difficult to read images? That way the user could look at an alternate source of scans if need be.
KenJ
Page images
We don't necessarily have a preference for png files, if the jpgs are done well. The problem with jpg is that it is a lossy format -- but I'm guessing internet archive uses them appropriately. It would be OK to provide multiple links if necessary.
Yes, the XML metadata files will probably help, although we'll still have to match the IA edition up to a hymnary.org edition.
Thanks!
---------------
Harry Plantinga
CCEL Director
Of course matching is the
Of course matching is the number one priority. I was only saying I should post links to all the different scannings of the same edition. I have found it necessary sometimes to use more than one set of scans so that I could make a complete "correct" edition from parts of several if need be. It is indeed nice to have "backups" when something is unclear from distortion or despeckling.
I should probably do the same with GoogleBooks, which is the other source I use after IA. There will be some duplication, as I've seen on IA such statements as "Book digitized by Google ... uploaded to the Internet Archive by user ...".
Thanks for your attention to this, Harry. I hope I can help provide the means for (many) others to help get things done faster here.
God bless.
KenJ
If PNG is not necessary then
If PNG is not necessary then I might as well upload images in other formats that are available at IA. I will try to find and re-read related posts here. Then I'll start by uploading the two hymnals I posted links to PDF files at IA. After successfully uploading the images I'll delete the links, or do you want to keep them anyway?
KenJ
Where is the notes section of a hymnal
Just where is the notes section of a hymnal that I should paste the link(s) to? I know there's a "notes" column in a spreadsheet for notes on individual hymns, but for the whole hymnal? I suspect it's the page with the info I use for verification of the edition, but where, exactly, would I post the link(s)?
KenJ
Hymnal notes
If you go to a hymnal page and select "edit" from the editor tools, you have access to all the data base the hymnal. The very last item is "notes"; you could add a link there such as
<a href="http://whatever">Page images at Internet Archive</a>
---------------
Harry Plantinga
CCEL Director